Fearless Vegan

Vegan Apologetics
9 April, 2011, 10:27 pm
Filed under: Uncategorized

I recently stumbled across an argument that I had with a non-vegan quite some time ago.  Intrigued, I re-read my arguments and, although I think I’m definitely smarter now than I was a few years ago, I made some really good points and wanted to share it again (hopefully this time the other end won’t be nearly as hostile).  It may help some of my readers to understand some of the points why I am vegan, and hopefully provide other vegans with encouragement in your apologetics.  Sometimes omnivores can be difficult to reason with (especially if they are very stubborn, traditional, or close-minded), and it is always good to have as much help as possible.

It must be said that this person was adamantly anti-vegan and started this argument with me over a mutual friend’s facebook wall (if that gives you any clue…).  She also knew nothing other than what society had trained her to know, and I tried to provide as much real research and facts as I could to help convince her stubborn mind.

So here are some of the things I told her (edited, obviously, so that it makes sense in some sort of order).

i’m not going to try to change your mind. please read with honesty the things i say and watch what i ask. if you further your education on the topic, i will further mine.
watch any documentary on the subject, including fast food nation; food, inc.; earthlings; or meet your meat.
read any book on the topic, such as eating animals by jonathan safran foer, animal liberation by peter singer, or the ever-popular skinny bitch.
also, go learn what terms like “organic” and “cage-free” and “free range” actually mean, and what the FDA actually requires about these labels.  this labeling really means that the bird was allowed outside five minutes a day. the rest of the time, it could be kept in a cage no bigger than a shoebox for your designer leather boots… if this interests you, you can read more about it from tony’s meat market’s website, which, clearly, is not vegan or even vegetarian propaganda.


as for the animal abuse, we can argue about this for weeks (and we did).  but for me,
abuse is abuse. i’m fairly certain what happened to the jews in nazi germany would be considered abuse: they put people in CATTLE cars (get it?); kept them in small, unhealthy, confined places; and prodded them with electric shockers (much like a cattle prod) if they refused to do what the nazis ordered… does this sound familiar?
what about child abuse? how do you define it? is it hitting a kid once, or beating it repeatedly until it dies? just because a cow can’t talk to say “that hurts” doesn’t mean it doesn’t feel pain. if you care about animals and love them the way you say you do, that should be considered abuse to you.

I’m sure it is true that not all farms abuse all of their animals. But I am talking about factory farms, which make up around 85% of the meat in the U.S., approximately 10 billion animals yearly. and abuse is common.  just go hit the youtube and see what you’ll find.  and it clearly does happen, a lot. how much is enough for you?

if an animal does not equal a human in your eyes, then that is your opinion, and there is nothing i can do to change your mind.  nonetheless, I must ask a question: can you make it all the way through this video?  If you can’t make it through the video without being thoroughly disgusted, then you can’t tell me that animal abuse doesn’t matter to you. If you can make it through and still don’t care, don’t you dare tell me again you are a compassionate human being who cares about the welfare of animals.

if you believe animal abuse is okay because of separation of mind and body, that’s just great. very spiritual. so if the body doesn’t matter at all, then surely you don’t see anything wrong with abusing a pet dog? What about (human) physical abuse? gang violence? rape? the holocaust?

and sure, if someone else chooses to abuse an animal, that is not really your problem, but don’t you realize that you are financially support that choice by buying those animal products?
someone going vegan does not stop animal abuse entirely, this is true. however, i can take pride in the fact that in my refusal to consume animal products, i am not physically or financially SUPPORTING the industry that endorses the use, abuse, and murder of innocent animals.

you are exactly right with what you said before: “there is no humane way to kill anything.” my reply would be: then don’t kill it! it’s quite simple really.


On Factory Farming and Tyson Foods:

i never said that i wished that all animals would run free. obviously, that is not a possibility. however, they did get along just fine up until domestication, and it wasn’t until the industrial revolution that factory farming became the leading edge technology. also, you might consider that the only reason that there are billions of cattle is because they are manufactured and BRED FOR SLAUGHTER. they don’t produce like that naturally, as should go without saying.

About Tyson, nowhere on their website does it say that they don’t use hormones or that their animals are raised naturally or that they are free range or allowed to graze. They also do not cite their slaughterhouses, which means that they could get their meat from anywhere, maybe even unregulated foreign slaughterhouses that don’t have to answer to the USDA.  you say, however, quite the opposite.  how do you know this? have you been to their slaughterhouses? if you haven’t, i dare you to go visit one, please. or at least go try, because i am certain they will not answer that request, as they have for no one else.

i will repeat myself again: NOWHERE on Tyson’s website does it say that they don’t inject hormones or that their animals are raised naturally or that they are free range or allowed to graze. some packages may say that they don’t use hormones, and some meat may not contain them. that doesn’t change the fact that the majority of them probably do. and i’m sure you don’t always buy your own raw meat and cook at home… do you check at every restaurant that you go to that they use organic, natural, hormone-free meat? If you do, that must be a major inconvenience… it’s almost like being a vegetarian already!

revision–Tyson has since released a Supplier Code of Conduct. Still, it says nothing about hormones or free range or anything previously mentioned.  It does claim that Tyson has “a long-standing commitment to the well-being and proper handling of the animals used in [their] food products” and that they “expect [their] supply partners to use humane procedures and sound animal husbandry practices designed to prevent the mistreatment of animals” … whatever that means.  “commitment” and “expect” don’t exactly cut it, and leave Tyson a lot of wiggle room.  I’d rather see words like “guarantee,” “responsibility,” and “requir” in there.


one of the big kickers, dairy:
now, about dairy. dairy cows are some of the most abused animals on factory farms. a cow has a natural life span of 20-25 years. A dairy cow on a factory farm lives 4-5 years; 25% are slaughtered before they’re 3, and only 25% even make it to 7 (not even HALF of their natural life span).
many cows cannot even walk because of how abnormally large their udders are. this is because of “specialized” feeds (sometimes even consisting of other cows: this is a main cause of mad cow disease), injections of BGH (a growth hormone, which many experts blame for increasingly early maturity in young women—it has decreased by 6 years since the industrial revolution), and a gross amount of antibiotics.
and i’m sure you know that most cows get terrible diseases. ever thought about why?? terrible feed (made up of corn, which is not good for their digestive systems), hormones, confinement, lack of exercise, the list goes on. and i bet that producing gallons upon gallons of milk (attached to a machine, two to three times a day, every day, for at least 10 months out of the year) would make me really sick as well.

cattle, like humans, only lactate after having kids. this means that dairy cows must be impregnated in order to produce milk; however, this is often done by artificial insemination (after all, it would be so inefficient and slow to actually have cows reproducing naturally). this artificial insemination, obviously, is involuntary. (some might consider that rape.)
in addition, humans are the ONLY mammal that drink another mammal’s breast milk. humans are also the only mammal to continue to drink breast milk after infancy. We are clearly behind the game on this, as the point of breast milk is lost past infancy. Breast milk is used to fatten up the baby, whether it’s a cow or a human or any other mammal. think about the point of milk… to triple your weight in two years. dairy is fat. period. and non-fat milk? there’s just as many calories in non-fat as whole, because they have to sweeten it and add stuff in order to make it not taste like shit.
still think there’s nothing wrong with dairy? i could go on and on… but try watching these videos–here or here


for the health argument:
i don’t doubt that you can be healthy eating meat. however, you say that you now eat meat sparingly and that now you are healthier… i wonder about this correlation. also, meat has been proven repeatedly to be a causing factor in cancer, heart attacks, stroke, diabetes, and many other diseases. not only that, meat is the most likely source of diseases such as salmonella, mad cow, ecoli, and not to mention the fact that all of those diseases are caused by the meat that you eat being contaminated by feces. don’t believe me? look it up: here or here or here

as for these diseases, no, mad cow does not infect humans at all, it only infects other cattle. however, experts have found a link between people who eat beef from infected cows and a variant of bovine spongiform encephalopathy, also known as Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, and you can only get it from eating parts of a cow’s nervous system. but all that can go into ground beef… like you said, why waste parts of an animal if we’re going to kill it anyway?

i agree that cutting out junk food does make you healthier; it is no coincidence that most junk food contains animal products, such as dairy, confectioner’s glaze (made from bugs), gelatin (made from ground up bones and horse hooves), as well as many food dyes, like red 4 (derived from squashed beetles).

if you’ve always eaten meat sparingly, like you say, then it wouldn’t be such a big deal for you to go vegetarian. what’s stopping you, other than your stubbornness? of course eating junk food is bad for you; anyone arguing against that would be a moron. and of course exercising is good for you, but don’t you think the cows you eat could benefit from a little exercise as well?


As for the God argument, I must admit I am not as well-read in the bible as I should be as a Christian. However, I do know that in Genesis 1:29-30, “God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.” I know that later on, God also endorses eating animals for food. However, I have two arguments regarding this: 1) he says we can eat animals, not abuse, manipulate, oppress, dictate, or contain them; 2) he only says we can eat animals AFTER the fall of humanity. In the garden of Eden, before the fall, how God originally intended life to be, we were all vegetarians.

for me, being vegan is not just about the treatment of animals. it’s also about health; i don’t need to eat animal products to live a healthy lifestyle. it’s also about treating animals as living, breathing beings; God never intended for us to brutally murder them unnecessarily and manufacture them specifically for slaughter. being vegan is also about living a sustainable lifestyle; factory farming is the single biggest contributor to environmental degradation and exploits both the animals and the laborers who get sick from working with sick animals.
again, i am not trying to change your mind. i just hope to enlighten you and encourage you to learn about what is really going on. it’s easy to ignore these facts, but they are undeniable.

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